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The esteemed rabbanim of the Lev Shomea organization visited the home of the renowned Litvish Rosh Yeshiva, Hagaon Rabbi Dov Landau, to receive his guidance and advice for yeshiva bochurim. Kikar HaShabbat presents the full transcript of this exceptional and enlightening conversation.
Among the rabbanim who participated in the gathering were the chairman of the organization, Hagaon Rabbi Eliav Miller, Hagaon Rabbi Eliyahu Kellerman of Ponovezh, and Hagaon Rabbi Mordechai Fisch, mashgiach of Yeshivos Or Elchonon and Sorotzkin.
"Grandson: "Activists from 'Lev Shomea' have arrived.
"Rosh Yeshiva: "I can’t hear
"Grandson: "'The heart hears'—that’s what matters
!"Rosh Yeshiva: "Ah
"Grandson: "They want to ask questions, to hear what our Rebbi has to say
Rabbis of Lev Shomea: "We receive calls from young men or parents who consult with us on the hotline, and we need to know what to tell them. There are young men who feel that their achievements in learning are minimal, that studying is difficult for them, and as a result, they develop a sense that their learning does not contribute sufficiently to the community—especially in the current situation, with the war and everything. What should we tell them to give them the feeling and understanding that, despite everything, their learning has an impact and is indeed beneficial for all of Israel?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "Learning is not measured by achievements but by how deeply a person is immersed in study—the more immersed, the better. Achievements are a good thing, but the main point is to be fully engaged in learning. If they are deeply immersed, each one without his worries, that is what is needed—people who are absorbed in Torah study, not just people with achievements. There are achievements, but not everyone attains them. What is required are individuals who are fully invested in their learning, not studying as an afterthought. That is what the Jewish people need, and in what manner? Each person according to his abilities."
Rabbi Klarman: "What should we say to someone who not only struggles with achievements but also finds it difficult to be deeply immersed in learning? He can study for an hour or two—how do we encourage him?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "Sometimes, they need to study something that interests them—learning that engages them, depending on the subject. There are those who struggle because they don’t connect with deep and complex reasoning, but there are areas of study that are more accessible—Orach Chaim and other topics that are interesting. We should help them find satisfaction in that and praise them for it. Not everyone follows the same path."
Rabbi Fish: "Is the reward truly measured by achievements?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "I don’t have a fax line to heaven—pardon my impolite words—but what I do know is that someone who is fully immersed in learning—there is no one like him. What happens in heaven, I don’t know. I apologize for the wording... but I’ll say this: someone who is immersed in Torah—that’s it. A true Ben Torah is someone who is deeply engaged, but it depends on how—each person according to his abilities."
Rabbis of Lev Shomea: "Because of all the noise and commotion in the public sphere today against those who study Torah..."
Rosh Yeshiva: "The propaganda in the streets is a very serious problem, but it’s simple and we’ve already spoken about it. There has never been any rational explanation—though I’m not much of a politician—but everyone says that the fact that the Arabs did not come and flood the land, did not kill and annihilate everything, has no logical explanation.
And when there is no logical explanation, then it is proven—it’s ausgeshpahrt (self-evident), as R. Baruch Ber said—that there is something special that is protecting the settlement. And there is nothing else to attribute it to—only Torah study.
There are many secular people who are sincere, and they don’t know how to process this—what happened here. The people are surrounded by enemies, by those who hate with deep hatred, who feel that their land was taken from them. They should have gone and done the most terrible things—but they didn’t.
And there is no explanation for why they didn’t do it. It is in the nature of the Arabs to be wild, and the only explanation is Torah study."
Rosh Yeshiva: "There is no explanation—one way or another, there is simply no explanation. And there is another thing: according to the Torah, the presence of Jews in this land for so many years, while going against the Torah and against the mitzvot, is completely against what is written.
I’ve said this before, and others have said it too—what about ‘And the land shall not vomit you out when you defile it’? The only thing preventing that from happening is Torah study.
Rosh Yeshiva: "These things are clear and simple—we state them plainly. All the propaganda in the streets comes from hatred, but also from a lack of understanding.
The problem is that today’s secular Jews are not the same as the ones I remember. I’ve been in Israel for quite a few years—I was born abroad—but the secular Jews of the past were either those who had learned and then left the path, or those who never learned at all.
Today’s secular Jews were not raised with any Jewish education. They have nothing. They are completely different.
I knew the secular Jews of the past—I lived in Rehovot at a young age, and I remember all the secular Jews back then. They spoke Yiddish, and they ate all the non-kosher foods from Parshat Shemini—the well-known animals, all of them—but they still spoke Yiddish and had some knowledge.
There were all sorts of different types among them. What can I say? Very unique individuals. But they are gone.
And their children’s children grew up and became the elders of today’s generation—people with absolutely no connection to Judaism, nothing at all. They are disconnected from everything."
Rosh Yeshiva: "I’m not making a sweeping statement—perhaps there are exceptions—but overall, it is impossible to explain.
With the secular Jews of the past, one could have a debate—whether it was worthwhile or not—but at least there was someone to talk to. Today, there is no one to talk to.
However, unusual phenomena are happening. Aside from the ba'alei teshuva (those who return to religious observance), there are those who travel abroad.
One such person, Zehavi, who was in the IDF General Staff and became a ba'al teshuva, told me that he travels abroad to give lectures. He says that it is impossible to describe the yearning of those who never knew anything about Judaism while they were in Israel, but once they are abroad, they suddenly want it.
Here in Israel, there is nothing."
Rosh Yeshiva: "He was a high-ranking commander in the army, and he feels it is his duty to travel abroad and speak about Judaism. What I want to say here is that the people in this country have nothing—no Judaism. Everything for them is built on apikorsus (heresy) from the very start. What can I say? Apikorsus.
They were educated with all the well-known heresies, and there is no point in even mentioning them. There is something very unpleasant to say, but what can we do? The Arab enemies believe in the Creator of the world. This is something the Jewish people must learn from. And it is absolutely infuriating—they genuinely believe.
The Rambam, in a halakhic ruling, states that they have a complete belief in Yichud Hashem (the unity of God) regarding certain matters, such as wine and other laws. It is terribly unfortunate that they invoke the name of God—the Arabs, who are wild men—while speaking in His name. It is utterly horrifying. In my view, this is an unparalleled Chillul Hashem (desecration of God's name)."
Rav Fish: "Chazal say that Israel keeps descending lower and lower."
Rosh Yeshiva: "Nebach (how unfortunate)."
Rosh Yeshiva: "Today, there are ba'alei teshuva, which is very beautiful. But the fact that the Jewish people—who are God's people—established a state of heresy and apostasy, this is something that must be studied and understood.
Those who learn Torah and are deeply immersed in it are the ones who enable our survival. There is no logical explanation for it—only this.
Everyone should express it in their own way—perhaps I am speaking too harshly, whether less harshly or more so, you can find the right language.
That is all that can be said."
Rosh Yeshiva: "I haven't given a complete answer, but you are the ones saving—those who learn Torah are the ones saving. There is no explanation for why the Arabs have not united to flood the entire land and, God forbid, annihilate everyone. There is no explanation. Many people say this, even secular people—there is simply no explanation.
They could have united together, they don’t care if they get killed too. Their wild men are willing to die, and yet it didn’t happen."
Rav Fish: "So how does the small number who learn Torah manage to save the majority, some of whom are even fighting?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "It saves. It is the pill that protects."
Rabbi Miller: "Even though they are a minority?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "If there were more, they would save even more. The more there are—the more they save. This is an act of divine mercy. Every young man who learns Torah—the impact he has on saving the Jewish people is beyond words! Every student, every avrech, every Jew who learns Torah. But especially the young men—it is because of them that there is a logical explanation for why we still exist here. That is the only rational explanation. There is no substitute, no other explanation—just empty words.
As for those confused ones with the kippot serugot—I won’t even speak about them. They have their own theories. With them, it’s difficult. That’s a whole different discussion… If we start talking about them, we’ll end up in an entirely different debate… I could go on and on—that’s an old-fashioned kind of zealotry… but this is not the time. If you want, I can talk about it…"
Rabbi Miller: "They say it is very important for the younger generation."
Rosh Yeshiva: "What can I tell them? That the first Chief Rabbi was concerned with how to prevent Herzl’s Temple… There is a letter of his where he writes, 'With this, Herzl’s vision will be orphaned.'
He said that it could be done on the Temple Mount itself, based on the Ra'avad's opinion that it is permissible to enter. And the Chief Rabbi replied that the halakha follows the Rambam, who prohibits it. So instead, they established it near the Temple Mount, not on it. 'And with that, Herzl’s vision will be orphaned.'
Well… what’s the point in talking about this…"
Rabbi Miller: "But they say that this relates to the founders of their ideology. Today, however, there are many young men who see the dati leumi (religious Zionist) community—those whom Maran Shlita refers to as the 'knitted kippot'—who truly sacrifice their lives according to their understanding. Some of them study Torah, yet at the same time, they go and risk their lives for what they call, in their words, 'guarding the people and the land.' Some bachurim feel that this makes them seem inadequate, while the others appear to be doing what is right."
Rosh Yeshiva: "So I said, they are dying because we are not learning enough, and we need to increase our efforts even more to save them. They are dying because their rabbis teach them a distorted Torah.
Anyone familiar with the Zionist idea knows what it used to be. The Bnei Akiva movement—it still exists, but I do not wish them any blessing. Their slogan was—nebach, I remember—not 'Creator of the World,' not 'Torah,' but 'The Land of Israel, for the People of Israel, according to'—I say—'the color'—of 'Torat Yisrael.'
That is what exists. Today’s secular people are already doubting their right to the Land—and in a way, they are correct from their perspective. For them, the Land of Israel is the ultimate goal."
Rosh Yeshiva: "Rav Elchanan already wrote about this in Ikvesa d’Meshicha. There is a debate in the Chazon Ish about his practical approach, which is a different matter, but for them, this is their reality—‘The Land of Israel for the People of Israel’ is their fundamental issue.
There were people from the past who are no longer alive, like Fishman-Maimon, who said, ‘It’s better that they go to Hashomer Hatzair than to Agudat Yisrael.’ You don’t know this, but that’s what he said. Oy, it’s all heresy, all the sins in the world, denial of everything—yet it was passed down to them in this way.
So today, yes, they observe mitzvot. And R. Yaakov Friedman had a certain way of phrasing it. They have Judaism, etc.—you can ask him; he can define it."
Rabbi Miller: "So a bachur asks, does that mean there is no need for an army?"
Rosh Yeshiva: "It’s like the well-known story about the snow and the Chafetz Chaim. Someone once said, ‘How wonderful is snow! If you're freezing in the snow, you take a bit of snow and rub it on your face’—a famous story. What’s so good about snow...? In a situation like this, it’s impossible.
They [soldiers] also act not necessarily for rescue, but for the honor of the state. They kill people for the sake of honor. What am I supposed to say? I’m not very familiar with all the details; others can explain this better. They accuse each other, and they’re all telling the truth... all of them are telling the truth. Telling bachurim about all this isn’t simple, but this is the reality of salvation."
Rosh Yeshiva: "So what should be done in such a situation? I don’t know what would have happened at the beginning of the state if they had established a UN-administered government here—it would have been a great situation. There’s a letter from the Brisker Rav from back then, a political letter against Shertok—[later] Sharett—a letter from 1948 sent abroad.
It was possible to live well without a state, together with the Arabs. If we go even further back, we could have done as R. Chaim Sonnenfeld did—show them respect. It was quite good when the Arabs ruled here. That was the best situation. The Arabs were in charge, they were respected, no one interfered with them, they brought money into the land—the Arabs love money."
Rosh Yeshiva: "The entire history of the Yishuv—what difference does it make now? The situation is different today, but in the past, everything was conducted according to R. Chaim Sonnenfeld’s approach: living peacefully with the Arabs, and the Arabs greatly respected him. And how did he relate to the Arabs? That’s already history—over ninety years ago.
There’s even a letter he wrote to the King of Iraq, addressing him as ‘Your Majesty.’ He wanted to escort him upon his return to the land, but since it was Shabbat, he couldn’t. And he signed the letter as ‘Your servant, Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld.’ If the Arabs had been treated this way, the situation would have been different. The Zionists also caused the Arabs to hate us."
Rosh Yeshiva: "The Arabs were never good, but they needed to be respected. He even received a medal from the King of Aram—that's what history shows. Zionism was supposed to be about saving the Jewish people, but instead, it brought both material and spiritual disasters upon Israel. Never before had the Arabs hated Jews so much, anywhere in the world.
But what difference does it make now? What can be done at this point, when we are living among thieves, and these thieves are the ones protecting us? What can be done—it’s a big problem. So what? Will they stop one day? You can’t trust them anymore. Maybe enormous concessions could have been made—I don’t know what to say. Politically, I’m not well-versed, and when one doesn’t understand something, one shouldn’t speak about it. There may be another approach... but from the elderly, one has to endure hearing quite a lot..."